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Thread: Samsung VRT Steam Front Loading Washer No Drain Problem

  1. #1

    Question Samsung VRT Steam Front Loading Washer No Drain Problem

    Model Number: WF448AAP/XAA
    Brand: Samsung
    Age: 1-5 years

    No Drain error started shortly after putting non HE detergent in by mistake. Tried multiple empty loads with no detergent, couldn't get it to drain properly. After researching purchased a new drain pump from Parts Dr., installed no change. Researched more, blew out pressure switch, no change. Cleaned house drain, no change, cleaned all drain hoses on washer, no change. Frustrated - Any ideas? Thank you! I should mention this issue is intermittent. It has ran through a rinse + spin a few time with no issues. I've tried normal cycle and quick wash and it usually drains after the wash then hangs up giving the no draining error when it's time to drain the rinse.
    Last edited by Jay; 02-16-2014 at 04:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Admin/Technician Doc Ryan's Avatar
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    When the error occurs, is the tub full of water? Have you blown through the pressure sensor hose to make sure it is clear from obstructions?
    Ryan
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  3. #3
    Usually the tub is full of water when it hangs up but it has started to drain and then will just stop draining and freeze up with just a little bit of water still in the tub. I can manually drain the remaining water and when it gets low enough it'll take off again. I did blow through the pressure switch hose and it seems very clear. The only hose that was plugged was the one from what I think is a circulating pump that's next to the drain pump and runs up to a small outlet that's in the rubber door gasket section. That hose was completely plugged. I ran a small snake through it and it moves a lot of water through during the cycle now. I'm starting to think maybe there's a level sensor problem or something in the electronics?

  4. #4
    So I replaced the pressure switch and re-verified the pressure sensor hose is clear, including the approx. 6 inch hard plastic pipe on the bottom the hose connects to. Now it makes it all the through to the final rinse. When the rinse is done it starts to drain and drains about 1/2 the water out and freezes. After 5 minutes of being froze I get the No Draining error.

  5. #5
    Admin/Technician Doc Ryan's Avatar
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    It could be a problem with the control board. The next thing would be to check to see if the drain pump is receiving power from the control board when it stops draining. We have seen the main control board on some of these washers fail and it will stop sending power to the drain pump.
    Ryan
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Ryan View Post
    It could be a problem with the control board. The next thing would be to check to see if the drain pump is receiving power from the control board when it stops draining. We have seen the main control board on some of these washers fail and it will stop sending power to the drain pump.
    So I ended up taking the washer in to an appliance repair shop. They installed a main control board to the tune of $280, dented the door and denied it. I re-installed the washer in my upstairs laundry room and the drain pump works fine. However now it leaks all over the floor. Glad I have a floor drain! I found a small (about 1/4" I.D.) hose connection point on the top left of the door gasket behind a hose that comes off the drain pump with no hose or plug connected to it. I made temporary plug and the leak almost stopped. Of course the repair shop wants me to bring the machine back since I live way out in the country, grrrr, really don't like carting the big heavy machine up/down my long stairway! I can't find any loose hose or plug in the bottom of the machine. I'm wandering if a new door gasket would come with the plug since the inlet or outlet appears unnecessary?

  7. #7
    Admin/Technician Doc Ryan's Avatar
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    So the main control board was the cause of the problem? I think that hose goes from the drain pump and attaches to the top of the door gasket. It is used to recirculate water while washing. Check around the top of the door gasket and there should be a place to attach the hose to.
    Ryan
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  8. #8
    Patient
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    I actually experienced the same problem on my Samsung WF448A washer, where the drum water level sensor would 'make' on rising water level and tell the main controller board to start the drain pump, but the relay potted into the main control board that actually switches the drain pump motor had contacts which would conduct intermittently. Sometimes it would start and run, other times not. Eventually the relay contact continuity got bad enough to be able to troubleshoot what was actually happening.

    Naturally, Samsung tried to save $2 when designing the control board by direct soldering the relay connections plus potting everything in epoxy ... so replacing the defective $10 relay actually requires replacing the entire main control board assembly ! P/N DC92-00133A
    Last edited by NewYorkTom; 07-05-2014 at 02:06 PM.

  9. #9

    Lightbulb Before you replace the main control board on a Samsung washer for "nd" error code

    Quote Originally Posted by NewYorkTom View Post
    I actually experienced the same problem on my Samsung WF448A washer, where the drum water level sensor would 'make' on rising water level and tell the main controller board to start the drain pump, but the relay potted into the main control board that actually switches the drain pump motor had contacts which would conduct intermittently. Sometimes it would start and run, other times not. Eventually the relay contact continuity got bad enough to be able to troubleshoot what was actually happening.

    Naturally, Samsung tried to save $2 when designing the control board by direct soldering the relay connections plus potting everything in epoxy ... so replacing the defective $10 relay actually requires replacing the entire main control board assembly ! P/N DC92-00133A

    I have a Samsung front-loader (Model WF337AAW/XAA, 8 years old) that would intermittently not drain the water prior to the spin cycle, generating the "nd" error code each time. The problem occurred more frequently over a period of a week or so, and finally the washer stopped draining altogether. I first checked the drain pump / lines for clogs, etc. but found nothing, and as noted, it was working intermittently. I used the schematic on the washer (visible after I removed the top panel) to find the connections on the main control board that send power to the drain pump, put a multi-meter on the connections and started the spin cycle, but it read 0 volts (should be 120V to the drain pump).

    Figuring it had to be "the board", I luckily found someone with a used board, same part number, for cheap on eBay, so ordered and installed it. That board allowed my washer to drain (!!) prior to the spin cycle, but the eBay board had a different problem that wouldn't allow the washer to spin up. No matter, now I knew my control board was definitely the problem, so took a closer look at it. Saw a row of 8 relays on the board, one of which is clearly labeled "drain pump". A failed relay (which is just an electrically powered switch) would definitely explain the symptoms, but how to replace it? All the parts on the board are swimming in 1/4" or so of hardened silicone sealant.

    At this point, most anyone would just get a new board, but no local shops where I live had one in stock, and the online prices were around $250 for the board. Besides, I hate waiting, I love fixing things, and I had a "spare" board with a whole row of relays, most of which were probably good. I just had to figure out how to get past that silicone goop.

    The main board and the display board are mounted in a plastic housing, back to back. And no WAY was that control board coming out of the housing; Samsung and silicone sealant had seen to that! Instead, I first removed the display board (held in place only by several plastic tabs), so now the housing (and of course, more silicone) was all that was in my way. After measuring and marking the approximate location of the row of relays on the back of the housing, I *carefully* Dremel-ed off a section of the housing, and pried it free from the silicone. Now I used a pencil-sized, pointed wooden dowel to cut through the silicone around the row of relays, front and back side, pulling the silicone off as I went, and finally used a small stiff plastic brush to remove as much of the remaining silicone as possible from the back side (soldered side) of the board.

    I used a 12V power source and multi-meter to test the drain pump relay. Sure enough, no circuit was created on the load side of the relay when 12V was applied to the coil side. I checked all the other relays, and they were working fine. I HAD FOUND IT!! Feeling very confident now, I repeated the board surgery on the spare board, so I could get at those relays also. I used a soldering gun and soldering wick to free one relay, and carefully removed it from the control board. Cleaned off the remaining silicone sealant, fluxed and soldered it back into my original board, replaced the display board, and re-installed into my Sammy front-loader. Powered it back up, and miracle of miracles! I have a washing machine that works perfectly again!

    So, not a repair for everyone (you'd need to have access to and be comfortable with a Dremel and soldering/de-soldering equipment), but it's totally do-able. If your washer won't drain, displays "nd" error code, and you're sure it's the board, this is an option. I Google'd the part number on the relays (F&T F3AA012E), and there were a couple of U.S.-based sources for purchasing them for less than $10/each.

  10. #10

    Which relay is the problem child???

    Kevin,
    I wanted to thank you for tracing down this issue as I truly believe I have isolated this as my problem too. I also think this is the issue for many other people that have replaced many drain pumps when that's not the real issue. I have replaced the pump as well as the control board behind the front panel. Neither of those fixed the issue and it took me some digging to find your post here in this forum. So, now that I have found it I was hoping that:
    a) you still come here
    b) you can recall which relay it is that controls the drain function?

    I have found the relay on eBay for 11 dollars and I have ordered it out of NJ. I cannot tell be reading the small print on the PCB which relay controls this function. I sure hope you still come here. It would keep me from digging into the wrong relay. I am going to look for a schematic on the internet but I don't hold out much hope I will find it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_a View Post
    I have a Samsung front-loader (Model WF337AAW/XAA, 8 years old) that would intermittently not drain the water prior to the spin cycle, generating the "nd" error code each time. The problem occurred more frequently over a period of a week or so, and finally the washer stopped draining altogether. I first checked the drain pump / lines for clogs, etc. but found nothing, and as noted, it was working intermittently. I used the schematic on the washer (visible after I removed the top panel) to find the connections on the main control board that send power to the drain pump, put a multi-meter on the connections and started the spin cycle, but it read 0 volts (should be 120V to the drain pump).

    Figuring it had to be "the board", I luckily found someone with a used board, same part number, for cheap on eBay, so ordered and installed it. That board allowed my washer to drain (!!) prior to the spin cycle, but the eBay board had a different problem that wouldn't allow the washer to spin up. No matter, now I knew my control board was definitely the problem, so took a closer look at it. Saw a row of 8 relays on the board, one of which is clearly labeled "drain pump". A failed relay (which is just an electrically powered switch) would definitely explain the symptoms, but how to replace it? All the parts on the board are swimming in 1/4" or so of hardened silicone sealant.

    At this point, most anyone would just get a new board, but no local shops where I live had one in stock, and the online prices were around $250 for the board. Besides, I hate waiting, I love fixing things, and I had a "spare" board with a whole row of relays, most of which were probably good. I just had to figure out how to get past that silicone goop.

    The main board and the display board are mounted in a plastic housing, back to back. And no WAY was that control board coming out of the housing; Samsung and silicone sealant had seen to that! Instead, I first removed the display board (held in place only by several plastic tabs), so now the housing (and of course, more silicone) was all that was in my way. After measuring and marking the approximate location of the row of relays on the back of the housing, I *carefully* Dremel-ed off a section of the housing, and pried it free from the silicone. Now I used a pencil-sized, pointed wooden dowel to cut through the silicone around the row of relays, front and back side, pulling the silicone off as I went, and finally used a small stiff plastic brush to remove as much of the remaining silicone as possible from the back side (soldered side) of the board.

    I used a 12V power source and multi-meter to test the drain pump relay. Sure enough, no circuit was created on the load side of the relay when 12V was applied to the coil side. I checked all the other relays, and they were working fine. I HAD FOUND IT!! Feeling very confident now, I repeated the board surgery on the spare board, so I could get at those relays also. I used a soldering gun and soldering wick to free one relay, and carefully removed it from the control board. Cleaned off the remaining silicone sealant, fluxed and soldered it back into my original board, replaced the display board, and re-installed into my Sammy front-loader. Powered it back up, and miracle of miracles! I have a washing machine that works perfectly again!

    So, not a repair for everyone (you'd need to have access to and be comfortable with a Dremel and soldering/de-soldering equipment), but it's totally do-able. If your washer won't drain, displays "nd" error code, and you're sure it's the board, this is an option. I Google'd the part number on the relays (F&T F3AA012E), and there were a couple of U.S.-based sources for purchasing them for less than $10/each.

  11. #11
    Hey, huntrp27, glad you're going to try the repair. I've got some more details and pictures to hopefully help out.

    First off, you'll need a couple of tools. I assume you've got a soldering iron of some sort, if you already got the replacement relay. Also helpful is some de-soldering wick or a de-soldering bulb, but you might be able to get the old relay off without this. The other tool that's helpful is a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel, or something similar. You'll need something like this to cut through the plastic housing that houses the two circuit boards that together make up the control board. OK, let's go!

    First couple of pictures are the back and front of the Electronic Control Board (ECB). This is actually two separate circuit boards, back to back, inside a plastic housing.
    Here's a picture of the "back" of the ECB, showing the circuit board containing the relays, etc. You can see the silicone potting material has already been removed from around the relays, and you'll need to do this in order to remove the bad relay to the drain pump circuit:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I used a heavy wooden skewer, but you also could use a sharpened wooden dowel or pencil. Something sturdy enough to push thru the silicone, but not hard enough to scratch the board.

    Here's the "front" of the ECB, containing the other circuit board housing the display and the wash cycle selector. This is the board you'll need to remove in order to gain access to the back of the circuit board containing the relays. There are just three bendable tabs on the top of the housing holding this board, depress them one at a time and they'll release the circuit board. Remove this board with the display, and set it aside for now:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now, here's a more detailed picture of the relay section of the "back" circuit board; the silicone has been removed, and you can see the 5th relay from the left is clearly labeled "Drain Pump". Once you have removed the silicone from around this area with your stick/dowel, measure the area's location within the housing, and "transfer" these measurements to the reverse side, where the display board was removed, which should now just be the plastic housing:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Once you have the measurements made for the area you need to cut away to provide access to the relay area on the "back" board, use a Dremel tool with a cutting blade (or something similar) to cut just through the thickness of the housing. You have some room to spare here, since there is also a layer of silicone between the housing and the solder joints on the back board, but take this part slow. Once you have the area's perimeter cut away, use the dowel or a screwdriver, etc to pry the cut section of housing away from the silicone potting material lying under the "back" circuit board. This photo shows what mine looks like:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    We're getting close now. Remove the silicone potting material from the "back" board you exposed, using the skewer/dowel. Now you'll need the soldering iron and de-soldering wick (if you have it) to heat up the four connections holding the relay in place. This close-up of the first relay's solder joints shows the four joints which have been de-soldered; you'll need to do the same for the relay you remove (remember, you'll be removing the 5th relay. I removed the first relay on this "spare" board to use as the replacement relay for my washer's drain pump):
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Assuming you've made it this far, what you need to do now is solder your replacement relay back into that same slot. Then pop the display board back into the front of the ECB housing, replace any ribbon cable connectors you removed earlier, re-install the ECB in the washer (making sure you reconnect all ribbon cable connectors previously removed to enable removal of the ECB. And that's it! Assuming the issue was the bad relay, you should have a working washing machine again. You can either try putting the washer into the test function for the drain motor (you should be able to Google this to find the correct button sequence), or just partially fill the washer with water, and manually advance the control until it starts draining, to test. Good luck, and let me know how you do! Also feel free to ask more questions if you have them.
    Last edited by kevin_a; 07-22-2017 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Need to add more

  12. #12
    huntrp27, just wanted to let you know I saw your post, and I posted more info below your post. Figured you might not notice it if I didn't reply to your post, tho.

  13. #13

    Huge thanks....

    Kevin,

    Big thanks for the detailed reply. I have ordered a replacement board to put into the washer and at least get it back up and going again. I am going to attempt this repair on some rainy fall weekend day while watching football and having nothing else to do. I really think if we could figure out a way to make this repair on these boards, we could have a small cottage industry for people whose drain function has quit. There are tons of people that this is really their issue.....not the pumps. I will come back here and report my findings.....Thanks again Kevin

    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_a View Post
    huntrp27, just wanted to let you know I saw your post, and I posted more info below your post. Figured you might not notice it if I didn't reply to your post, tho.

  14. #14
    I took the control panel off, cut the window in the back and replaced the drain pump relay. It works perfectly. Great fix and only cost $11.00 and a couple hours of work. It was so easy I'm considering buying these machines online to repair and resell.

  15. #15
    Anyone here know of a fix for the DC92-00130A board? WF448/AAP machine has the SAME "not draining" issue, and i've already changed the pump with no good results. It seems the whole machine is toast if the board can't be replaced or fixed.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by w7412r View Post
    Anyone here know of a fix for the DC92-00130A board? WF448/AAP machine has the SAME "not draining" issue, and i've already changed the pump with no good results. It seems the whole machine is toast if the board can't be replaced or fixed.
    Have you repaired or replaced the DC92-00133 controller panel in the back of the machine? Sears parts direct has a replacement available for around $120. Or if you're handy, you can do the relay replacement fix above.

  17. #17
    Didn't know there was another board at the back of the machine. I thought the only board which needed replacing was the one at the FRONT. Any guidance is appreciated! I ordered a DC92-00133B and was about to return it. Is the 133B a good replacement for the board at the rear for the WF448 series? I also had a TE error, and ordered another thermistor which is on the way, but figured the error code might be related to the board wherever it is.
    Last edited by w7412r; 07-18-2018 at 07:16 PM.

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